Developer Meetings/20071020

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To Attend

  • Meeting Time: 20071020 1700 UTC
  • Timezone Information: www.timeanddate.com
  • Meeting Protocol: XMPP (Jabber) Conference
  • Meeting Location: k-3d@conference.jabber.org

Agenda

  1. [All] - Meeting schedule
  2. [All] - SPI/SFC followups
  3. [Duo] - freeze script followup
  4. [Janssens] - GSoC followup / 2008 ideas - Note: I won't be able to make it, see /Barts Meeting Comments for my comments. -- Bart
  5. [Shead] - Proposal: plugin reviews
  6. [All] - Our recruiting and retention are suboptimal ;) - and our mailing-list subscriptions have been flat for years. What do we do to shake things up?
    • Create contributor pages with pics, biographical info, etc.
    • Live demos using VNC / Skype / foo
    • Screencast demos to be disseminated through YouTube, Google Video, etc.
    • Setup a marketing "team"
      • Develop slide presentations
      • Post releases to a concrete list of venues
      • Improve website
      • Ensure everyone has t-shirts / caps / foo
    • Attend open-source conferences
    • Attend SIGGRAPH
    • Developer sprints
    • Bug-days
    • Community bios with photos
  7. Animation: Where to go from the current state? Curve editor or other priorities?
  8. Bug and Patch trackers: Switch to trac? (or similar System) The sf.net system has a lot of visual noise and is slow for surfing. Besides it lacks of some features. (like global rss)

Action Items

  • [Shead] - Continue work on binary installers for an initial 0.7 release.
  • [Shead] - Continue work on scripted nodes to support the 0.6 freeze script.
  • [Duo] - Continue work on the 0.6 freeze script.
  • [Dahnielson] - Try to contact the SFC project.
  • [Duo] - Continue trying to get feedback from SFI member projects.
  • [Crawford] - Experiment with different approaches for delivering recorded and/or live demos - YouTube, GoogleVideo, mpeg, vnc, etc.
  • [All] - Create your wiki user pages!

Discussion

(11:06:34) Anders Dahnielson [anders.dahnielson@gmail.com/GaimFD0CF113] entered the room.
(11:06:46) joaduo: hi Anders Dahnielson
(11:06:54) Anders Dahnielson: hi
(11:07:03) joe [joe@celestinestudios.com/Home] entered the room.
(11:07:15) joaduo: well...
(11:07:24) joe: Hello!
(11:07:26) joaduo: now we are more... :)
(11:07:27) joe: Right on time!
(11:07:27) joaduo: hello
(11:07:33) joaduo: yeah :D
(11:07:48) Tim Shead: Counting the cat, I think we have a quorum ...
(11:08:02) joe: what a quorum? 4 people?
(11:08:20) Tim Shead: A joke ... enough people to get started.
(11:08:28) joe: cool
(11:08:41) Tim Shead: So the first item - is meeting weekly too often?
(11:09:00) joaduo: i think it is
(11:09:01) joe: For now, probably not, I don't mind.
(11:09:10) joe: It depends how much its needed I guess.
(11:09:21) joaduo: i agree also with that
(11:09:40) joaduo: although i would prefer avery two weeks
(11:09:45) joaduo: every*
(11:10:04) joaduo: so
(11:10:07) Tim Shead: In general I prefer weekly because anything longer and action items tend to fall through the cracks.
(11:10:31) Tim Shead: So let's try weekly for a bit longer, and see how attendance goes.
(11:10:46) joaduo: ok
(11:11:18) Tim Shead: Along those lines, I will be travelling this time next week, so is there anyone who would like to "manage" the meeting?
(11:11:23) joe: If people couldn't make the meeting weekly, they could also post action item progress etc on the wiki page for the meeting
(11:12:04) Tim Shead: If you check today's meeting page, you'll see that Bart posted notes, because he wasn't able to attend.
(11:12:08) joe: will it set itself up on this server so people can attend?
(11:12:10) joe: Cool.
(11:12:26) joe: Reading now...
(11:12:32) centipede901 [centipede901@gmail.com/Home2CEF0AB0] entered the room.
(11:12:38) Tim Shead: Yes, this "conference" is permanent ... anyone can use it at any time.
(11:13:08) joaduo: hi centipede901
(11:13:22) centipede901: hi all
(11:14:09) Tim Shead: So back to my question - are you guys going to meet while I'm gone?  The answer should be "yes" ... because it's not all about me :)
(11:14:36) joaduo: yes... i guess we can
(11:14:41) joe: I can do it.
(11:14:54) Anders Dahnielson: I will be here
(11:15:07) joe: I'm at the office all weekend anyway, my whole staff is, because we have so much crazy work going on right now!
(11:15:10) Tim Shead: Fantastic!  Presumably Bart will be there, too.
(11:15:14) joe: cool
(11:15:34) Tim Shead: So let's move on to the second item - followups on SPI/SFC.
(11:16:14) joaduo: ok
(11:16:17) Tim Shead: Bart's notes include some feedback from someone from SFC, though I don't know who.
(11:16:26) joaduo: about SPI i didnt get any answer on drupal
(11:16:33) joaduo: and on wxwidgets
(11:16:41) joaduo: o posted on the forum
(11:16:52) Tim Shead: "o"
(11:16:53) Tim Shead: ?
(11:16:54) joaduo: maybe i should have sent a mail?
(11:17:01) joaduo: I*
(11:17:03) joaduo: sorry
(11:17:45) Tim Shead: Whatever works ...
(11:18:03) joaduo: so... should I try on other orgs?
(11:18:15) Tim Shead: Yeah, if you could keep trying, that would be great.
(11:18:18) joaduo: or we just for sfc?
(11:18:32) joaduo: or we just go for sfc?*
(11:18:33) Tim Shead: Well, my report - I've tried to contact SFC twice now, with no response.
(11:19:03) Tim Shead: I *did* manage to get some much-more detailed info on SPI:
(11:19:22) Tim Shead: It is in the meeting page: http://www.spi-inc.org/treasurer/associated-project-howto.html
(11:19:30) Tim Shead: That's a good read.
(11:19:58) joaduo: ill put it on the wiki
(11:21:03) joaduo: so?
(11:21:10) joaduo: what do we do?
(11:21:11) Tim Shead: Is there anyone who would like to try contacting SFC?  Maybe they don't like my k-3d.com email address.
(11:21:30) Tim Shead: (I'm really perplexed by the lack of response)
(11:21:42) Anders Dahnielson: I could do it
(11:21:48) Tim Shead: Done!
(11:22:01) Anders Dahnielson: Exactly what would my inquiry be?
(11:22:14) Anders Dahnielson: What info do we need from them?
(11:22:22) joe: I don't mind contacting people, but only on stuff where I wouldn't actually understand what I'm talking about... lol.
(11:22:29) joaduo: Tim forward Anders your email
(11:22:32) Tim Shead: Here is what I sent:
(11:22:38) Tim Shead: Dear Sir or Madam:

I am writing on behalf of the K-3D project http://www.k-3d.org - which
produces Free Software artists' tools for creating 3D computer graphics,
licensed exclusively under the GPL.  In this respect K-3D nicely
complements the 2D graphics produced by one of your member projects -
Inkscape.

The K-3D project currently has no formal organization or mechanism for
managing donations, and we are extremely interested in the services the
Conservancy has to offer - if at all possible we would appreciate
learning more about project requirements, the application process, etc.

Thank you for your time,

Timothy M. Shead
tshead@k-3d.com




(11:23:01) Anders Dahnielson: nice
(11:23:17) Anders Dahnielson: I'll send it to them
(11:23:31) Tim Shead: Well, not verbatim - use your own voice, chief.
(11:23:36) Anders Dahnielson: sure
(11:23:58) joe: that letter is pretty clear, you'd think you'd get a responsde
(11:24:02) joe: response*
(11:24:06) Tim Shead: C'est la vie
(11:24:32) Tim Shead: In any case, we're not anywhere near to committing to anything at this point, let's just keep chipping away at it until we have more info.
(11:24:44) joaduo: ok
(11:25:11) Tim Shead: Next item on the agenda is the "freeze" script - how's that coming along Joaquin?
(11:25:31) joaduo: just the algorithm
(11:25:43) joaduo: http://www.k-3d.org/wiki/User:JoaquinDuo/Freeze_Script
(11:25:51) Tim Shead: Beat me to it.
(11:26:29) joe: Hm, looking at that, I think I may be able to be useful.
(11:26:34) Tim Shead: Terminology-wise, I'd say "Delete all the upstream nodes"
(11:26:42) joaduo: haa
(11:27:05) joe: Tim: Yes, but only the upstream nodes that aren't connected to anything else
(11:27:13) Tim Shead: Good point.
(11:27:52) Tim Shead: Thoughts on the "black list"?  I'm not exactly sure what you had in mind Joaquin
(11:27:52) joaduo: all right for next week i should send some test about deleting and saving the document
(11:28:10) joe: it should only do it on selected objects too
(11:28:26) joe: or maybe have a seperate one for the entire scene?
(11:28:33) joe: but selected objects is most important
(11:28:37) joaduo: but inst it meant for a batch job?
(11:28:47) joe: usually, not really
(11:28:55) joe: just for converting to the new k-3d versions
(11:29:08) joe: usually, artists use it to optimize individual parts of the scene
(11:29:16) Tim Shead: We may want to make a distinction here between making 0.6 documents safe for 0.7, and the long-term freeze feature.
(11:29:30) joe: yes
(11:29:44) joe: 0.6 to 0.7 docs -- freeze all
(11:29:50) Tim Shead: I think that Joaquin should focus on the former - it's simpler - and let it be a prototype for the latter.
(11:30:07) joe: yeah, true, good way to start
(11:30:18) joaduo: ok
(11:30:25) joe: for now, usually freezing the whole scene won't be a problem anyway
(11:30:46) Tim Shead: On a related topic, the scripted node capability is nearly ready for this.
(11:31:18) Tim Shead: Scripts in the share/scripts/scripted_nodes directory are automatically loaded.
(11:31:43) Tim Shead: All that is missing are some scripted application plugins.
(11:32:16) Tim Shead: e.g: scripted importers, exporters, etc.
(11:32:24) joe: I had an idea regarding user interfaces functions that might need options, like a freeze script
(11:32:38) joaduo: one question.... the only problem we will have are with meshes?
(11:32:47) joaduo: and the rest of the plugins?
(11:33:21) Tim Shead: Meshes are the only data type that get created with elaborate pipelines.
(11:33:22) joaduo: I guess i will focus on meshes...
(11:33:25) joaduo: now
(11:33:32) joaduo: ok
(11:33:53) Tim Shead: None of the other data types (scalars, strings, etc) have the complexity of meshes.
(11:34:15) joaduo: i will, make a beta for next week
(11:34:27) Tim Shead: I could imagine freezing bitmaps (they have sources and modifiers), but I don't think they get used in that way much at the moment.
(11:34:43) Tim Shead: Also, the bitmap modifiers are much simpler (and thus less likely to break).
(11:35:21) Tim Shead: Cool!  I will be working on the scripted nodes so your script can be integrated into the UI like any other plugin.
(11:36:02) Tim Shead: So let's move on ... I'm actually going to skip #4, everyone can read Bart's notes offline - and they will probably make for a good discussion next week.
(11:36:20) joe: Bart did a great job fixing that undo problem btw
(11:36:25) Tim Shead: Item 5 is a followup to the work on plugin behavior.
(11:37:05) Tim Shead: Joe did a nice writeup of how plugins should behave, but there are a lot of fuzzy suggestions there.
(11:37:29) Tim Shead: ... obviously, every plugin is different, so it's difficult to develop hard-and-fast rules.
(11:37:55) Tim Shead: Currently, every plugin is either "experimental", "stable", or "deprecated".
(11:38:28) Tim Shead: What I would like to have is a semi-formal review for every plugin, to see that its behavior is the "correct" behavior.
(11:38:45) Tim Shead: That is: that it has the right inputs, produces the right outputs, the right selection, etc.
(11:38:47) joaduo: as we already suggested to make a table on the wiki
(11:39:12) joe: This is something I can eventually do, although there's a lot I won't understand, and it won't be a quick task.
(11:39:17) joaduo: i guess we could get from there a generalization, i case there is
(11:39:20) joe: That "table" will grow slowly
(11:39:30) Tim Shead: Here's the thing ...
(11:39:40) Tim Shead: as some of you know, I'm not a big fan of TODO lists.
(11:39:54) Tim Shead: Not to sound like Yoda, but we need to live in the Now.
(11:40:22) Tim Shead: My goal would be to get all eyes on the existing plugins, and see what needs to be changed on a one-by-one basis.
(11:40:34) joaduo: i agree...
(11:40:53) Tim Shead: Rather than trying to plan ahead for everything, the point would be to have a developer present a single plugin for review.
(11:41:14) joe: That's a good idea
(11:41:32) joaduo: so joe, can you begin with the table?
(11:41:40) joaduo: of existent plugins?
(11:41:50) joe: sort of, but that table will take a very long time. There a *lot* of plugins
(11:42:02) joe: however, I could start going through the polygon plugins
(11:42:12) Tim Shead: I'd like to suggest that you not create a table.
(11:42:16) Tim Shead: Here's why:
(11:42:35) Tim Shead: The information that goes into such a table really belongs in the documentation for the individual plugins.
(11:42:43) joe: yes
(11:42:55) joe: I could just edit those plugin pages instead right?
(11:42:56) Tim Shead: And again, I would like to apply everyone's effort to a single plugin at a time.
(11:43:18) Tim Shead: Yes, but let's not modify them speculatively ahead of time.
(11:43:24) joe: ok
(11:43:31) Tim Shead: I don't want to promise a feature in a plugin's documentation that doesn't exist.
(11:43:52) joaduo: joe, you could start anyway in your user page
(11:44:01) joaduo: later i can help to move them.
(11:44:15) joe: Yes, its certainly something I could get thinking on.
(11:44:42) Tim Shead: So, the formal reviews could become a regular part of this meeting.
(11:45:29) Tim Shead: The intent would be for everyone to have a chance to try the plugin out in-advance, so they can comment on the behavior in the review.
(11:45:44) joe: interesting, good idea
(11:45:57) Tim Shead: We could then hash-out any changes, the developers would go off to implement them, and Joe (or whomever) could write the documentation.
(11:46:24) joe: cool
(11:46:36) joe: I would like to point out one thing though
(11:46:45) Tim Shead: Shoot
(11:47:20) joe: I think at the moment, the individual plugins are actually working pretty well. Its the way they fall into the workflow/UI that is sometimes problematic
(11:47:39) joe: if any work is going to be done, fixing the plugins seems a counter productive way to start
(11:48:06) joe: in terms of community building, we're going to have the best luck if we fix the ways they tie into the workflow first
(11:48:21) Tim Shead: And this is exactly what I'm talking about.
(11:48:30) joe: IE: (From the wiki)
(11:48:34) joe: When a modifier is used in one mode, such as subdivide edges, and outputs selections of another type, make sure that when switching to that other type, the selection is not cleared or converted. Right now after you subdivide an edge, if you want to select another vertex, and switch to vertex mode, you loose your selection. This is related to the next entry...
(11:48:44) Tim Shead: The review is a chance to discuss how an individual plugin fits into the system as a whole.
(11:49:01) joe: Its a more general statement, not really to do with the individual plugin, but rather, how plugins as a whole work
(11:50:02) joe: Or this item, when extruding faces on several objects:
(11:50:02) joe: Current problems with applying modifiers to lots of objects at once and not being able to edit the modifiers collectively. We almost need instancing of modifiers here, or multiple objects going through separate channels of the same modifier. At minimum, just having a property editor that can edit all the modifiers simultaneously would do the trick.
(11:50:13) Tim Shead: I think we're in violent agreement - I want the behavior of plugins to mesh well with one-another.
(11:50:28) joe: cool, I suppose its just our working that different
(11:50:40) joe: wording that different I mean
(11:50:49) Tim Shead: However, we need to tackle these issues in achievable steps.
(11:51:04) joe: Yes, for sure.
(11:51:23) Tim Shead: We also need to do a better job of socializing which plugins are available / what they do.
(11:51:30) joe: But how do you feel about the "achievable step" nature of item one that I posted?
(11:51:51) Tim Shead: ?
(11:51:59) joaduo: which one?
(11:52:21) joe: Its seems like a "single step" sort of thing:
(11:52:28) joe: When a modifier is used in one mode, such as subdivide edges, and outputs selections of another type, make sure that when switching to that other type, the selection is not cleared or converted. Right now after you subdivide an edge, if you want to select another vertex, and switch to vertex mode, you loose your selection.
(11:52:43) joe: Is that a good candidate for an "achievable step"
(11:52:45) joe: ?
(11:52:48) Tim Shead: I'm having a hard time parsing that sentence.
(11:53:06) joe: I think that videos might help here.
(11:53:31) joaduo: or send a tutorial script
(11:53:41) joe: ah, that's a great idea
(11:53:46) joe: I'll see if I can do it...
(11:53:47) Tim Shead: Sure!  The point is that plugins are the "atoms" in K-3D ... anything that needs to change, needs to change on a plugin-by-plugin basis.
(11:54:45) Tim Shead: Currently, we just sort-of write plugins and toss them over the fence.  The point is to give individual plugins a higher-level of scrutiny
(11:55:08) Tim Shead: This is - again - to avoid making changes later-on that break backwards compatibility.
(11:55:09) joaduo: i would like to suggest something
(11:55:35) joaduo: i mean, where is going to go this information o how plugins get connected?
(11:55:42) joaduo: on the plugin code?
(11:55:51) Tim Shead: Not sure what you mean
(11:56:24) joaduo: don't worry
(11:56:33) joaduo: i have to think i better i guess
(11:56:50) joaduo: lets go to the other topic?
(11:57:10) joe: I made a tutorial script showing the problem
(11:57:28) joaduo: put it on the wiki
(11:57:29) joe: it was a good idea joaduo
(11:57:35) joe: yes, I will
(11:59:14) joaduo: thanks
(11:59:58) Tim Shead: Great!  However, my point is this - when we get to that plugin (or any other), we'll look at the issue(s) that Joe (or anyone else) raise.  Maybe the fixes for those issues will have more global implications, maybe they won't.  Bottom line is, we have to start somewhere.  I'll start by submitting some much simpler plugins for review, such as CalculateNormals or TriangulateFaces.
(12:00:24) joaduo: ok
(12:00:30) joe: cool
(12:00:37) Tim Shead: So let's move on.
(12:00:45) joaduo: ok
(12:00:57) joe: question: the wiki takes the line breaks out of the tutorial code
(12:01:02) joe: what do I do?
(12:01:20) joe: I tried nowiki tags... no luck
(12:01:22) Tim Shead: You should "upload file" instead of putting it into the page.
(12:01:23) joaduo: upload it as an image
(12:01:26) joaduo: that
(12:01:27) joaduo: :D
(12:01:53) Tim Shead: You can also use "pre" tags for preformatted text.
(12:02:07) joe: ah... ok, I'll do that
(12:02:31) joe: That worked great tim
(12:02:33) joe: see here:
(12:02:38) joe: http://k-3d.org/wiki/Output_selection_cleared_on_component_mode_change_bug
(12:03:26) Tim Shead: Yeah, you should definitely just upload this as a file - that way we can just download it and go, instead of doing copy/paste.
(12:03:56) Tim Shead: I'll take a look at it after the meeting.
(12:04:34) joaduo: yes...
(12:04:46) Tim Shead: But let's talk about marketing - Joe had some great ideas last week, and we've altered our development priorities as a result.
(12:04:59) joe: one last question, sorry... instead of Media: or Image:  how should I refer to a text file?
(12:05:01) Tim Shead: However, I want to continue the conversation on how to grow the community.
(12:05:28) joaduo: joe that doesnt matter, for mediawiki is the same
(12:05:33) Tim Shead: If you link to it as media: browsers will just download it.
(12:05:40) joe: Sweet, ok thanks
(12:05:42) Tim Shead: The name is a little outdated
(12:06:10) joe: the application name?
(12:06:18) Tim Shead: "media:"
(12:06:25) joe: ah cool, thanks!
(12:07:03) Tim Shead: Moving on, if you take a look at our forums, you will find that we actually get a fair number of compliments from people who like the program.
(12:07:20) Tim Shead: These are not professionals like Joe,
(12:07:28) joe: Oh yes, I also get a lot of compliments when I demo it live too
(12:07:43) Tim Shead: ... and they probably have low expectations ...
(12:08:00) Tim Shead: ... but we get lots of kudos for usability over e.g. Blender already.
(12:08:19) joe: yes, I love how blatantly obvious that is now.
(12:08:36) joe: it means were doing well
(12:09:03) Tim Shead: So even though we are trying to get a "minimum level of usability" for the professionals, I want us to be reaching-out to other groups.
(12:09:28) Tim Shead: We desperately need more developers.
(12:10:12) Tim Shead: ... and we shouldn't be waiting to do it.
(12:10:36) Tim Shead: Not just developers ... contributors of all kinds.  Translators, people to help with documentation, the website, etc.
(12:10:52) Tim Shead: So I'm going to throw it open for suggestions.
(12:11:13) Tim Shead: There are a bunch of ideas I putup on the wiki, any thoughts?
(12:12:25) Tim Shead: You'll note that the first suggestion is to beef-up our contributor pages (and this came up on the ML) ... has everyone created a user page in the wiki?
(12:12:36) joe: not, but  can do it
(12:12:38) Anders Dahnielson: Well, I added one suggestion to the meetings page earlier in the week: screencasts of someone like Joe demo the application. Because it tellyou more about the application than a screenshot, and you get a feeling for it without having to download it and try the tutorials.
(12:12:53) joe: yeah, that's a great idea
(12:13:02) joe: I can do that, I just have to plan and script it well
(12:13:10) Anders Dahnielson: Screencasts that can be put on YouTube and the like to spread the word.
(12:13:10) joe: so that I can avoid the buggy thing
(12:13:22) Anders Dahnielson: ;-)
(12:13:22) joe: might take me a few tries
(12:13:30) joe: yeah, cool. Will do!
(12:13:47) joaduo: joe
(12:13:49) joe: Won't youtube be too lowres to use?
(12:13:59) joaduo: do you have more models you could upload to the wiki?
(12:14:06) Anders Dahnielson: well, Google Video, YouTube, you name it
(12:14:06) joaduo: to the 3d gallery?
(12:14:18) Anders Dahnielson: Googel Video is higher res but YouTube got the audience
(12:14:37) Tim Shead: We'll have to experiment ... one suggestion from the mentor summit was live demos using VNC.
(12:14:38) joaduo: good point Anders Dahnielson
(12:15:28) joe: I have lots of models, but nothing very good made in k3d. I've had so many problems with the little things, its been hard to get anything good made. That's why these minor usablity things are so important to me
(12:15:47) joe: in the videos I was recording, I just kept getting stuck with little bugs
(12:15:59) joaduo: i know, the same for me
(12:16:00) joe: Really prevented me from getting as far as I could have.
(12:16:09) joe: They were all small things though
(12:16:37) joaduo: tim, i think one of our biggest problem is what the user can do with k-3d
(12:16:45) joaduo: it has potential
(12:16:53) joe: if I plan them out in advance though, I can make the demo's workaround those issues
(12:17:32) joaduo: well... we can plan them
(12:17:59) joaduo: that also creates another workflow
(12:18:44) joaduo: joe, we should plan a set of objects
(12:18:57) joe: I wanted to start with kitchen table stuff
(12:19:04) joaduo: ok...
(12:19:05) Tim Shead: I will be frank - we've done the "if you build it, they will come" thing for years now ... and I think it's a failure.  We need to acknowledge our warts, and reach out for contributors anyway.
(12:19:42) joe: Tim: that's only because we never quite reached a certain threshold
(12:19:44) joe: we are so close
(12:19:47) Tim Shead: Again, I see this as a matter of addressing ourselves to the right audience.  We may not be ready to meet the needs of Joe and his peers, but many people seem to like the app.
(12:19:55) joe: oh yes
(12:20:06) Tim Shead: We need to attract those developers who also see the potential, and are willing to contribute.
(12:20:16) joe: and if we do some demo's that work around the problems, that should help
(12:20:27) joaduo: cool, i guess the demos could attract their attention
(12:20:32) joe: yes
(12:20:57) Tim Shead: What I want to avoid is missing out on contributors because we are needlessly pulling our punches.
(12:21:02) joe: also, for developers, rather than users, tim can play up how clean the codebase is and how nice it is to extend and build off of
(12:21:19) joe: as far as community, I'm speaking less of developers and more of users
(12:21:25) joaduo: Well, talking about developers, i guess we also could write "documentation for dummies"
(12:21:43) joe: For developers, what about going to Universities and talking with computer science classes etc?
(12:21:58) joe: A lot of university students might like getting involved in stuff like this
(12:22:40) Tim Shead: Agreed!
(12:23:10) joe: Hmm, quick point, the media thing didn't work, it won't let me upload .txt
(12:23:21) joe: so its just pasted in there for now
(12:24:04) joaduo: is the  .k3dscript extension enabled on the wiki?
(12:24:09) joe: Here in Vancouver, there is a new Centre For Digital Media, being developed by our 4 best universities
(12:24:19) Tim Shead: I'll have to enable it.
(12:25:07) Tim Shead: And here in Albuquerque, Sony is building a new facility for their special-effects division.
(12:25:43) Tim Shead: BTW, we're nearing 90 minutes, so we should start to wind-down.
(12:25:57) joe: sweet
(12:26:05) joaduo: move to 7 or 8?
(12:26:36) Tim Shead: ?
(12:26:39) joe: ?
(12:26:51) joe: 7 or 8?
(12:27:02) joaduo: 7 Animation: Where to go from the current state? Curve editor or other priorities? 8 Bug and Patch trackers
(12:27:11) joaduo: point
(12:27:25) joe: ah
(12:27:28) joaduo: sorry... my english is not right today
(12:27:36) Tim Shead: I will put these at the top of next week's agenda.
(12:27:44) joaduo: ok
(12:27:46) joe: cool
(12:27:56) joaduo: so, any conclusion?
(12:28:00) joaduo: actions?
(12:28:06) Tim Shead: Action items ...
(12:28:25) Tim Shead: Joaquin is off to a good start on the freeze script, he'll keep going 
(12:28:37) Tim Shead: Tim will continue with scripted plugins as a way to run the script
(12:29:02) Tim Shead: Tim will continue working on the release - I have been putting in lots of time on the Win32 and OSX installers, they should be ready next week.
(12:29:08) joaduo: joe will review plugins?
(12:29:10) Tim Shead: Anders will try to contact SFC
(12:29:12) joe: wow, cool
(12:29:22) joe: Joe will make a couple demo videos
(12:29:46) Tim Shead: Yes joe - these are mainly experiments for the technology, don't kill yourself on the details.
(12:30:04) joe: they will be rough at first, but will improve, I promise!
(12:30:25) Tim Shead: Like I say, I think we're mainly at a point of figuring out what delivery mechanism will work.
(12:30:28) joaduo: tim, there are some bugs on the script recording
(12:30:47) joaduo: we should review them so joe can record 
(12:31:00) Tim Shead: Write them up!
(12:31:07) Anders Dahnielson: btw, try encode as MPEG-4 (Xvid, DivX) and upload to Google Video for example
(12:31:10) joaduo: they are on the bug tracker
(12:31:27) joaduo: anyway i post a mail
(12:31:31) Tim Shead: Cool
(12:31:55) Tim Shead: Let's call it a day.
(12:32:00) joaduo: okeis :D
(12:32:01) Anders Dahnielson: good
(12:32:01) Tim Shead: Thanks everyone!
(12:32:10) joaduo: thanks you too
(12:32:10) Tim Shead: Same time next week!
(12:32:17) joe: Anders: OK!
(12:32:24) Tim Shead: Bye
(12:32:28) Anders Dahnielson: bye
(12:32:29) joaduo: bye
(12:32:29) joe: thanks everyone!
(12:32:31) Anders Dahnielson left the room.
(12:32:32) joe: bye
(12:32:32) joaduo: joe
(12:32:36) joe left the room.
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